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              Welcome all, Im glad you decided to stop by! :)

 

  In this thread Im going to cover how I do things, from start to finish. I will be covering topics on: Cloning, soil mixing, recycling soil,  pruning, compost tea (brewing and brewer building), helpful tools to acquire, PDX sources for ORGANIC materials, and more. I encourage everyone to participate and stay on topic(s). Please refrain from encouraging pats on the back, for instance, “nice grow, good job, Nice pictures etc. This is an informational thread, if you have a comment, question or correction please do so and you can throw your words of encouragement  in with that. I don’t mean to sound rude, Im just trying to keep the posts numbers down so this thread can retain its informational value and not have pages of one line ‘good jobs’. This will be a fairly long and ongoing post covering a bunch of topics, please don’t hesitate to jump in and participate. Im trying to refine my methods and learn something, so don’t be shy. Im open to all angles, viewpoints and opinions on this. Thanks for stopping in,  bring your notes and skills to share, grab your popcorn, and pull up a chair.

Holistic Organics

 

 

 

So first lets talk about the project. 

I had such a great year outdoors, the recipe I used outdoors preformed so well, I decided to bring it indoor and give it a go. I know what you may be thinking, bringing an outdoor soil indoors?   Well stay tuned Ill get to that. One thing I learned this year is you cant have too much soil, you just cant. The more soil you use the better and larger your plants can be. If you are recycling the soil you wont be wasting anything. IME if you give a plant more than enough root space to grow it will show you its full potential given you provided it with all the other elements it needs. I think it can grow as fast as any hydroponic setup given you dont let the roots ever find the edge of the container they are growing in. Most people who grow hydro argue thats the one thing that hydro has over soil is speed, and yield. I argue you can compare the two given you do the soil right.  Let your roots run and pack in plenty of organic food sources and your plants will show you what they can really do. Most people restrict this potential by having too small of a container and not giving enough nutrients or diversity.....

 

So I decided I wanted to fill an entire room with soil and see if it could be done. My first concerns were:

Humidity, soil born pests, water drainage and working space.

 

The room is 10.5w'x15'lx 8'h

6k watts air cooled

Cooling with outside air, backup A/C if needed

Two dehumidfiers with a total of 120 pints  of potential water removal per day

CO2 burner

 

Here are a few room pics to look at:

 

Intro_walk_in.jpg

 

Intro_room_spread.jpg

 

Intro_room_tour.jpg

 

intro_pics_ballasts.jpg

 

Intro_control_wall.jpg

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The floor is concrete underneath three layers of plastic 12 mil on bottom then two layers of 6 mil. No hard soled shoes ever step on the plastic, only grow room slippers lol. The plastic is layered the bottom one cups up the wall about 6 inches. After I put the raised floor in there is  only around 15 -20%of the orginal floor surface you are able to walk on. Another thing is that the floor isnt level so when water is on the floor it all rolls to one corner. This floor defect kinda makes it nice because its easy to clean up when its all in one place. Ultimately there should never  be any water on the floor if you dont overwater. There is a way to figure exactly how much water your beds/ pots will need. I will get to that in a little bit. Do you know of a way to seal the plastic as you mentioned?

 Orginally I was thinking  large beds with a pond liner or sealing it off with some sort of plastic barrier. After thinking and reading on it I came to the conclusion if I watered properly, and took the proper steps to ensure it couldnt make it to the dry wall, I should be ok. I must admit I have overwatered a few times not using the stopwatch to keep track.

 

Eloquentsolutions,

 

Im not sure to be honest. There are lots of places around, almost too many IMO. I thought thats what the 'tags' were for, so that it is easily searchable, no? I was going to add to the site suggestion box what about a downloadable archive for all those threads that you want to keep around? Make it so you can either access it through this site or you can download it and have it on your PC..

 

 

Thanks for stopping in

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i was thinking of a rubber type glue for water sealing plastics. When i used to repair pool liners there was a nice nontoxic glue we could use to patch holes or seal seams water tight. Will look into the brand of glue been few yrs since then lol.

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i did a plastic floor when i was in the chicken coup.  shoeless not possible, so it did not last too long.  still, it was a thing of beauty while it lasted.  if pool liners were not so expensive, that is where i wanted to go.

 

i use large trays now.  the darn trays are far more then the #15 smart pots.  i too believe on lots of soil.  if i were younger i would go to #20's.  the 15s are heavy enough to remove from a dug basement!!!!!

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I aim for around 1200-1500ppm on the CO2 but I dont get overly concerned with it. It naturally fluctuates from 1000ppm up 1700ppm even without a burner, lol. The room exchanges air so often its up and down all the time, fresh air is very important IMO, so the more exchanges the better provided its not getting too cold. I hook my fans for the lights up with the temp exhaust, so when the room gets too hot they all kick on. This balances the room better than always having the fans for the lights running. Plus, since Im pulling in outdoor air through the hoods, it prevents me from getting condensation on my lenses and dripping on the plants.

 

 

Eloquent, if you like lots of dirt you are going to love this.

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Ok so the goal is to keep the roots running dont ever let them start to circle the sides of the pot. If they find the edges its chages growth rates and after a point its not reversible. Not to say your plants wont still kick but in speed and size , but that this special stage of vigor is lost. SO....

 

 From the start, my mother plants needed to be in superb health so that her offspring of clones would have good vigor and strength. The clones were taken before the onset of flowering from an outdoor crop of large healthy plants. I always make more mothers than I need so I can take only the best and largest lower shoots. I avoid lateral side branches and only take the tips. The cuts are always very large, with at least two sets of leaves, anywhere from 8-10 inches long. Rooting plugs are 2"x3". In my experience the larger the cut the healthier the resulting plant.  Mothers were heavily fed P. Silicate via root drench and foliar as well as a strict weekly IPM schedule. Adding compost teas and Kelp extract to an already well balanced soil mix.
They are planted into Organic "black gold" this stuff is good for the first two weeks of growth. Foliar Feed for the added boost we are looking for.

BG-Natural-and-Organic-225x300.jpg
Here are the clones transplanted into 3 gal pots on Day 1 fresh foliar feeding of fulvic acid.

Clones_transplant_day_one_fulvic_acid_fo
 

 

Here is @ day 7
One root feeding of kelp extract and fulvic acid also one foliar feeding of yucca plant extract.

 

clones_7_days.jpg

 

Meanwhile, before these girls out grow their pots, Im working to mix up the soil for the beds and get it in place in time. I put a calendar timer on them so I can stay on schedule if they stay in these pots longer then a week and a half I think the roots may start circling the pots. At one week the roots are shooting out of the bottom of the pots.
The pots are sitting on top of a towel to trap water and hold in moisture to preserve the emerging roots.

 

Roots_breaking_out_7days.jpg

 

Day 10.5 they are growing vigorously. Im still scrambling to get the pots mixed and filled with a few minor bumps along the way. An extra transplant may be in order, although not ideal, it may be needed to keep the roots running and plant vigor high. Already behind schedule on a perfect run attempt where timing is everything. Better catch up quick or start to lose points in plant vigor and health.

 

10_5_days_from_rooted_clone_transplant.j

 

10_5_days_from_rooted_clone_transplant_1

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So the original plan was to pack this room full of soil. (4 )400 gallon smart pots with a total of 8 yards of soil mix. I was going to cover the floor in pallets to keep the pots off the ground, but opted against it because of lack of uniformity and cleanliness of the pallets. The lights are spaced to each cover a 4x4 square with some overlap down the center. A raised floor was built to cover the exact size of the light foot print, this provides drainage in the event of overwatering and also a considerable amount of added air flow.

 

Raised_floor.jpg[/url]

 

 

The Soil Mix

So the soil mix consists of Emerald Pro Moss, Perlite medium grade and #4 Chunky, Green waste compost, EWC, amended with
Organic:
Feather meal
cotton seed meal
blood meal
kelp meal
alfalfa meal
fish bone meal
K mag
azomite

Glacial Rock dust
par4
rock phosphate
calcite lime

crushed oyster shells

 

 

The best peat moss available is very important, not all peat is created equally.. Have a look at the analysis

 

 

Promoss_peat.jpg[/url]
 



Perlite by the tote

 

perlite_tote.jpg[/url]

 

Green Waste Compost by the yard

 

Soil_mixing.jpg[/url]

 

Mixing by hand is a time consuming and laborious task to say the least. I measure my ingredients with an extra smart pot (measuring cup) when measuring compost, ewc and perlite.

I am currently mixing 2 yards at a time which equals one 400 gallon pot, using kiddie pools for mixing bowls.

 

Peat_mixing_bowl.jpg

 

Once all the ingredients are measured out, the two kiddie pools are mixed with a hand tiller.

Mixer.jpg

 

 

 



 


 

 


 

Edited by Holistic Organics

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Still lacking adequate room to mix, I use a 400 gallon pot to do the final mixing. I added rebar to the sides to keep them out of the way of the tiller.
 

 

Mixing_bowl.jpg
 

Lots of moving dirt around to get it mixed well, after its mixed it loaded into a large trashcan with wheels. These things hold a lot of dirt, no spills and on wheels…

soil_mover_no_spills_on_wheels.jpg

Another option to move dirt and even store your mix without it going anaerobic, heavy duty woven contractor bags holds over 100lbs

Strong_contractor_bags_soil_moving.jpg

Wheel it indoors and start unloading into the pots.  Using card board to support the sides as its filled carefully so not to spill too much dirt under the raised floor.

filling_up_pots.jpg

In one of the 400 gallon pots I recycled these pots left from the mothers of the current clones going into this room. There were root mites in one pot and also spring tails. Positive ID made with microscope examination.

To_be_recycled_soil_30_gal_pots.jpg[/url]

 

 

soil mite

 

Root_Mite.jpg

 

I have a hard time being ok with any sort of mite, sort of like cats and dogs getting along or the Lion laying with the lamb. It took a lot of research and observation to accept that they are beneficial to the soil, they help break down organic decaying material and they eat fungus gnat larvae. I may try and keep a colony of these going just to make sure I have them around. :)

 

http://www.fcps.edu/islandcreekes/ecology/soil_mite.htm

 

http://soils.usda.gov/sqi/concepts/soil_biology/arthropods.html

 

Spring tail, also beneficial and harmless.

 

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/insect/05602.html

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springtail

 

Spring_Tail.jpg

 

 

 

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After a few trash can runs the pots were filled.

 

mixed_and_ready.jpg

 

As much as I wanted to have (4) 400 gallon pots they just wouldnt fit. So I went with (5) 65 gallon smart pots under the other row of lights.

 

While the beds wait for some compost tea to finish brewing they are blessed with crystals.

 

DSCN4302.jpg

 

 

 

crystal_charging_beds.jpg

 

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Two suggestions: Get a large CompostTumbler... it's my favorite gardening tool. Look into possibly hanging your dehumidifier rather than supporting it from the floor to save valuable floor space.

 

Why are you going with such large pots? I may be wrong but I think the max amount of flowering plants is 24 for any grow in OR (You can only grow for 4 people total, right?), so that's 4 per light. Looks like you're running about 40W/square foot, so let's say you do four plants per light, that should give you a bit less than 30" for each pot diameter. So, either you go a little smaller and run a 45 gallon (27" diameter) or larger with a 65 gallon (32" diameter). Why the 400 gallon pots? seems very inefficient for your space... Are you just putting one plant in each of the 400 gals?

 

Also, should you need to refloor this in the future, check into rubber pond liner.

Edited by kanehbosm

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Two suggestions: Get a large CompostTumbler... it's my favorite gardening tool. Look into possibly hanging your dehumidifier rather than supporting it from the floor to save valuable floor space.

 

Why are you going with such large pots? I may be wrong but I think the max amount of flowering plants is 24 for any grow in OR (You can only grow for 4 people total, right?), so that's 4 per light. Looks like you're running about 40W/square foot, so let's say you do four plants per light, that should give you a bit less than 30" for each pot diameter. So, either you go a little smaller and run a 45 gallon (27" diameter) or larger with a 65 gallon (32" diameter). Why the 400 gallon pots? seems very inefficient for your space... Are you just putting one plant in each of the 400 gals?

 

Also, should you need to refloor this in the future, check into rubber pond liner.

Compost tumbler doesnt break up clumps and mix as well as turning with a tiller. I have a large concrete mixer I used to use when I did smaller pots but it doesnt hold enough. Now there is someone who does it with the right equipment, I believe his name is "Butte" from ICMAG, here is how he does it...

 

 

 

The reason for such big pots is that 1st you dont know what your plants can do until you give them more than they need. Cannabis has been widely underestimated as a  plant for many years. There are a few preaching about and showing us its full potential out there, this is where Ive gathered my knowledge. So many people skimp out on putting enough dirt and ultimately lose out in quality and yield in the end. Second, Cannabis grows very well in stands in the wild and despite popular belief, cannabis loves to grow together with other cannabis plants. They dont compete as most believe, but the mycorrhizae actually help divide nutrients and feed the plants  equally. If one is lacking in sugars for example, the fungi will take from one with enough and move it to ones in need. This has been documented with trees and other plants using dye markers to observe nutrient translocation by mycorrhizae. If you like I can dig out some literature and scan it in to a pdf.

 

  Im shooting for canopy filled room, inefficent eh? I was told that about my outdoor run this year too when I used 2 yards per plant and didnt get into the ground until june 21, the end results speak for themselves. Stay tuned and see how they run.

 

Yes, I will be doing 24 plants as allowed per grower, but there can also be more than one grower per location so truly there is the possibility under OR law to do more.

 

The rubber pond liner was my first thought when I was going to make beds right on the floor, but opted for more airflow/ drainage with the smart pots.  So far I havent had any water leak thru so its doing well. In the long run the pond liner would outlast all the other stuff for sure.  :)

 

The dehumidifiers from the ceiling would be awesome although hard to take em down and service them plus they are already nearly blocking off the output by the ceiling. Remove the leg and it would be no different than hanging except if the line out freezes and or the bucket fills the unit gets quite heavy, from experience this does happen, actually already has this run. maybe in a larger space with some pulley system to raise and lower it, it would be perfect. Thanks for the advice, dont be a stranger.

 

 

With Respect,

 

Holistic Can-o-pies

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The growing large plants, outdoors, thread...

 

That thread is where I gained most of the knowledge Im talking about here. I have a close friend who showed me the way and turned me on to that thread. Hes an intergral contributor to that thread and someone I admire for his skills and capacity to master the cannabis plant. I look up to Tom Hill in the same way, certainly a cannabis mentor for me.That thread is changing the cannabis world as we speak. Its a very long and in depth journey over the course of several years, well worth reading and even saving to your computer for detailed study. put on your seatbelt and take notes!  A quote from the thread:

 

 

By GanjaRebelSeeds:

Here's a big Blue Dream right before harvest,probably the biggest I've grown.

GRS_blue_dream.jpg
 

 

 

 

Giving credit where credit is due,

 

Holistic Organics

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Awesome and thanks for the informative reply! I've been considering this with my indoor and have noticed that I should be flowering much smaller plants in much larger pots. Thanks for the link to that thread too! Good luck!

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I always forget to list that. Probably because I dont add it to the soil mix, but I do add it in the very first soil drench along with kelp extract and a very small amount of molasses. I do this right when I pot the clones into the black gold and again when I transplant into the beds but  only in the rootzone. The first wetting of the beds is with areated compost tea, Im about to get to that...

 

Here is what I use..They dont list the cfus on the site but they are on the bottle.. Ill post em when I get more time.

 

http://fungi.com/product-detail/product/mycogrow-soluble-1-lb.html

 

Contains concentrated spore mass of the following:

Endomycorrhizal fungi

Glomus intraradices, Glomus mosseae, Glomus aggregatum, Glomus monosporum, Glomus clarum, Glomus deserticola, Gigaspora margarita, Gigaspora brasilianum, Gigaspora etunicatum

Ectomycorrhizal fungi

Rhizopogon villosullus, Rhizopogon luteolus, Rhizopogon amylopogon, Rhizopogon fulvigleba, Pisolithus tinctorius, Scleroderma cepa, Scleroderma citrinum

Trichoderma

Trichoderma harzianum, Trichoderma konigii

Beneficial Bacteria

Bacillus subtillus, Bacillus licheniformis, Bacillus azotoformans, Bacillus megaterium, Bacillus coagulans, Bacillus pumlis, Bacillus thuringiensis, Bacillus stearothermiphilis, Paenibacillus polymyxa, Paenibacillus durum, Paenibacillus florescence, Paenibacillus gordonae, Azotobacter polymyxa, Azotobacter chroococcum, Sacchromyces cervisiae, Streptomyces griseues, Streptomyces lydicus, Pseudomonas aureofaceans, Deinococcus erythromyxa


 

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With the exhaust shut off for 12 hours no supplemental heat in the room, lights off, I checked the room to make sure everything was ok...

 

Temperature 81 degrees, CO2 PPM 2100

 

The large amount of soil really keeps it warm for a while, and obviously provides lots of CO2...

 

Been super busy, Ill try and get up to speed here.

 

Overall I think this setup is a win. Certainly will be doing this method for a while, with a few evolutionary tweaks here and there.

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