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xbrpete

Vic High's Old School Organic Soils

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I know everyone sees the latest and greatest, but for the organic grower, ole Vic High had a really good grow mix,,, I was reminded of this recipe today by Anothertime, so I looked it up and here ya go,,,

 

Thanks Pard!

 

 

Super Soil Mix

 

1 Bale sunshine mix #2 or promix

2 L Bone Meal - phosphorus source

1L Blood Meal - nitrogen source

1 1/3 cups Epsom salts - magnesium source

3-4 cups dolmite lime -calcium source & pH buffering

1 tsp fritted trace elements

1/2 - 1 bag chicken manure (steer, mushroom, etc) - nitrogen & trace elements

- Mix thoroughly, moisten, and let sit 1-2 weeks before use.

 

Revised recipe - after several failures due to bad manure sources, I now use the following recipe. Results have been excellent and the clones seem to take off right away instead of having a slow growing settling in period.

1 Bale sunshine mix #2 or promix (3.8 cu ft)

8 cups Bone Meal - phosphorus source

4 cups Blood Meal - nitrogen source

1 1/3 cups Epsom salts - magnesium source

3-4 cups dolmite lime -calcium source & pH buffering

1 tsp fritted trace elements

4 cups kelp meal.

9kg (25 lbs) bag pure worm castings

- Mix thoroughly, moisten, and let sit 1-2 weeks before use. Original recipe - as it was given to me

 

Substitutions

Blood & Bone Meal - when trying to cut costs - The original recipe was a success, but I simply needed to experiment. In addition, sometimes not all ingredients were always available. Therefore, here are some possible additions and/or substitutions. Descriptions to follow Kelp Meal - contains over 62 trace minerals. Good supplement for manure or for reducing the manure content to speed up availability of soil.

Worm castings - excellent source of micro nutrients

Bat guano - excellent for top dressing a week into flowering

Seabird guano

Bugs

 

Personally, I prefer to simply introduce fungus gnat predators (Hypoaspis miles). Once established, they not only control fungus gnats, but also thrips and mites. When there is no insect food available, they survive on dead plant material, so remain even after pests are gone to prevent future infestations. Actually, since they have been introduced, I've had no pest problems in over a year and I don't filter my intake. I got mine from Westgro (1-800-663-2552) and they have sales offices in Delta, Victoria, and Kelowna.

Update: they did nothing to prevent a mite infestation in summer of '89 and were destroyed in the mite war. They will be re-introduced after mite war is finally over.

On a couple of occasions, I've ended up with fungus gnats with this soil mix. They are more of an irritation than anything but may harm weak or young plants. Some have said that putting a layer of sand on top of the soil in the pots stops the gnats from reproducing. Others can get rid of them by doing a soil drench with diazinon or malathion.

Recycling Soil

 

I grow strictly organic and I've always reused my soil. I don't sterilize the soil between plantings as my soil is full of microbes and predatory bugs that keep the bad bugs under control. After each crop, I chop up the soil and root balls with the leaves, stalks, etc and let compost for about 3 months. I then mix it up and add about 2 - 3 cups of lime for every 50 gallons composted soil. I also add about 1/2 cup epsom salts, 2 liters bone meal, 1 liter blood meal, 1 liter kelp meal, 1 tsp trace elements, and enough perlite to regain the porosity of the original soil. I used to add a bag of manure, but I was getting fertilizer burn and so have stopped now. As I've been fine tuning this, the plants just keep getting healthier and I haven't had any real pest problems for quite a while.

I know this is a controversial approach and maybe even risky, but it allows me to keep my garden pretty much self contained. I don't attract attention by buying bales of soil every 3 - 4 months year around, or in the disposal of leaves and soil after each crop. It's definitely not for those who want sterile crops and those that use pesticides and chemical ferts. I believe in working with nature, not against it.

Update: After several generations, a nutrient imbalance developed which was only solved by leaching the soil thoroughly. My hunch is that one of the micro nutrients was building to toxic levels. I guess farmers don't get this problem because they have the winter rains to leach excess nutrients from their fields.

 


    Used soil - Reusing soil has a few downsides such as it makes it easier for diseases, viruses, and pathogens from entering your garden. Also peat based soils break down and become acidic. If you fertilize with chemicals you'll end up with salt buildups that will slow growth. Unless you like to take chances, have a good eye, and a good horticultural understanding, you may be better off with staying with fresh new soils. That said;

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Update: After several generations, a nutrient imbalance developed which was only solved by leaching the soil thoroughly. My hunch is that one of the micro nutrients was building to toxic levels. I guess farmers don't get this problem because they have the winter rains to leach excess nutrients from their fields.

  Or quite possibly a build up of salts from the breakdown of organic materials. I like to have my soil tested periodically especially when Im recycle soil. Since different organic materials breakdown at various rates especially with the addition of compost tea and having a diverse microbe population, its good to get an idea of what available when so you can amend accordingly.  Here is a link to a well respected and reasonably priced testing facility out of washington. You can choose from all sorts of different tests to have done. http://www.soiltestlab.com/  Here is another good lab in PDX http://www.al-labs-west.com/sections/anservices

 

OR you can get your hands on an ERGS (energy per gram of soil) soil meter, this is a great help in determining if your soil has enough nutrients. Also a Sodium Na meter is a great tool to have. Too much salt is a plant killer and not enough and things wont do well either. Hope this helps in future projects.

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This is the recipe passed to me by anothertime that started my organic grows.   Its foolproof, cheap and it works like crazy!  Best part is you dont need anything expensive from the hydro store or magic bottles of watered down goo!   I swear by this! 


Disappointment is caused by unrealistic expectations. / The more I learn about people the more I like my dog. / Whether you think that you can, or that you can't, you are usually right. / Its like everything it depends on everything else. 

 

 

 

 

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bump

Talking to manny about this soil mix this weekend, so lets bring the recipe to the top!

I saw most of those ingredients sold separately at my local hydro store, I just never bothered to ask him about their prices.  On the up side, I've become a regular customer there, and the owner tends to throw me some pretty decent discounts.   

 

Thanks for bumping this link back up to the top Sinful, I was having a hard time finding the link to this thread

 


 

Each One, Teach One   :vap_smiley::vap_smiley::vap_smiley:

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IMO the basci TLO recipe is great, The Revs work is the most in depth and complete on the subject and the 3 LBs put out info that is still valid and rarely parroted today.  Whatever you choose you will save money, time, improve quality, and might just totally go down the wormhole as I have......Best wishes, if ya got questions, I will try to answer them, and I know Another Time knows plenty more on the subject as well. 


Disappointment is caused by unrealistic expectations. / The more I learn about people the more I like my dog. / Whether you think that you can, or that you can't, you are usually right. / Its like everything it depends on everything else. 

 

 

 

 

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IMO the basci TLO recipe is great, The Revs work is the most in depth and complete on the subject and the 3 LBs put out info that is still valid and rarely parroted today.  Whatever you choose you will save money, time, improve quality, and might just totally go down the wormhole as I have......Best wishes, if ya got questions, I will try to answer them, and I know Another Time knows plenty more on the subject as well. 

TLO Recipe?


 

Each One, Teach One   :vap_smiley::vap_smiley::vap_smiley:

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4C blood meal, 8C bone meal, 4C kelp, 1 3/4C epson salt, 3-4 Cups dolomite lime, bail of pro mix and a sack of worm castings... This is most basic, and I found it so prosuctive I wanted to improve it constantly. I was handed to me through Anothertime here, and I think some additions are great, but this works and is fool proof bro.  Ring me up manny, we can talk bro. 


Disappointment is caused by unrealistic expectations. / The more I learn about people the more I like my dog. / Whether you think that you can, or that you can't, you are usually right. / Its like everything it depends on everything else. 

 

 

 

 

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I will be making Vic High's soil following the Revised Recipe this weekend using Pro-Mix.  I have been able to find everything locally but one thing, fritted trace elements.  Is there another name that this could be sold under at a hydro/flower store? 

 

Peace


“You have control over your work alone, never the fruit.”  "If you don't try to be great, you don't really even have a good chance of being good"

 

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After running plants **almost** all the way through their life in the Vic High soil I ran into a cal/mag deficiency during a long veg period.  I have also been reading that a more diverse soil is a happier soil so I have decided to add some organic additions to my next batch of soil I will be making today. 

 

Things I got to add:

 

-Crab Shell 2-3-0

-Greensand

-Gypsum

-Rock Phosphate

-Alfalfa Meal

 

I also have the following guano:

-Mexican

-Jamacian

-Indonesian

 

Do you guys add guano to your organic soils?  Also, do I need to cut back on any of the ingredients in the Vic High recipe since I will be adding more stuff?? For example I was noticing it calls for 8 cups of bone meal..... Here is the original recipe I will be working off:

 

1 Bale sunshine mix #2 or promix (3.8 cu ft)
8 cups Bone Meal - phosphorus source
4 cups Blood Meal - nitrogen source
1 1/3 cups Epsom salts - magnesium source
3-4 cups dolmite lime -calcium source & pH buffering
1 tsp fritted trace elements
4 cups kelp meal.
9kg (25 lbs) bag pure worm castings

 

Peace


“You have control over your work alone, never the fruit.”  "If you don't try to be great, you don't really even have a good chance of being good"

 

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whoops :D

Edited by offdababa

Disappointment is caused by unrealistic expectations. / The more I learn about people the more I like my dog. / Whether you think that you can, or that you can't, you are usually right. / Its like everything it depends on everything else. 

 

 

 

 

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Moo, I dont use guano much anymore. It is expensive,  It does works great though. Mmm Bat poo top dressing first week or so in flower..hehe.. Worm castings are about the same, work great.  Personally I like a handful of castings or  guano in my tea, Especially with younger plants to help establish the microbe heard on the worm castings.   I have a hard time buying poo at any price though :D Using a lot in your soil, if you reuse your soil that is,  makes it a thick mess requiring mucho perlite too.  :D  

 

Your using the same recipe Anothertime passed onto me here that I fell in love with! (the recipe, not AT :P )  I think your additions are excellent choices! You already realize something that many growers never get.....You keep things in balance, not just pour everything to a plant that you can afford, or read about in high times, or a friends say "makes bigger, danker, denser wonder buds." LOLOL.   

 

Now then, the rock phosphate, especially if it is not soft rock phos will deplete at a much slower rate than the bone meal that also gives P, the same product will vary between manufacturers too by a wide margin. Id back off the bone meal a tiny bit, Use the NPK ratings on the box, they are usually pretty close. The idea is to keep the same amount of nutrients in the recipe, or keep it the same strength while diversifying its contents.  Green sand, that stuff couldnt burn a plant if ya grew it in it I dont think. lol. Good stuff, drainage, lotsa micro-nutes and good stuff, pour it on at will! Gypsum will provide Ca and plenty of sulfur, but again unless its powdered it will break down slower than dolomite lime or similar Ca product,  but youll need to back off the dolomite and other Ca sources a bit...Alfalfa meal is my favorite addition I have made to soil.  This stuff is from the gods.  TCN built in, great source of N, wont burn as quick as blood meal... I used mostly alfalfa meal and pellets for N, a cup or so of blood meal...Definitely back off the blood meal if your using alfalfa, and using alfalfa tea when young, maybe 6-8" and just into flower produces good results for me.  I also like Diatomaceous earth.  Silica and Iron...holds moisture great and its edges are like razor blades to insects that get in your soil too, if ya get some you can top layer it too to help with bug infestations. I wiped out fungus gnats with this alone, and no chems. :D  Let em dry, keep the temps cool, cover the soil in Diatom earth, works very well IME. 

 

Think of it this way, take that recipe and see what it has and why, then as you add new things, ask yourself  "Is this going to break down fast, slow, or somewhere in between" and "What is in this product that I am already providing to my plants" and finally you guesstimate your amounts trying to keep the soil the same strength it was.   As usual I hope this makes sense. :P  Also remeber you can always add teas, its hard to make the soil weaker though.... Peace to ya man-ODB

Disappointment is caused by unrealistic expectations. / The more I learn about people the more I like my dog. / Whether you think that you can, or that you can't, you are usually right. / Its like everything it depends on everything else. 

 

 

 

 

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Wow ODB wonderful explanations thank you. I won't be reusing my soil because I don't even want to start down the road of potential problems with infestations. Plus this way I can keep tweaking my recipe :) I will try to keep things in balance knowing that I will be making teas throughout the plants life. Now off to make some soil.


“You have control over your work alone, never the fruit.”  "If you don't try to be great, you don't really even have a good chance of being good"

 

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If your not reusing your soil I would try to add things that are VERY finely ground, or grind them fine yourself, things like rock phos I doubt would provide any real benefit in just a few months time if its the granual stuff, ya know, Id forget alfalfa pellets too... just a thought...

Edited by offdababa

Disappointment is caused by unrealistic expectations. / The more I learn about people the more I like my dog. / Whether you think that you can, or that you can't, you are usually right. / Its like everything it depends on everything else. 

 

 

 

 

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Here is what I threw in:

 

-3.8 cu.ft ProMix

-30lbs EWC

-4c Bonemeal

-2c Bloodmeal

-2c Lime

-3c Alfalfa Meal

-3c Gypsum

-2c Rock Phosphate (shit just saw your post about grinding the granules up... oh well next time)

-3c Green Sand

-3c Kelp

-2c Crab Shells

-1.5 c Epsom Salt

-1 tsp Azomite

-Perlite

 

Hopefully they like it :)

 

Peace


“You have control over your work alone, never the fruit.”  "If you don't try to be great, you don't really even have a good chance of being good"

 

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Looks great MOO!  Only thing I would really say might be missing is dolomite lime for Cal/Mg and PH buffer, but you have some good CA sources and Epson Salt for the MG, so I guess Ill STFU and let you rock them sexy girls moo! :D

Edited by offdababa

Disappointment is caused by unrealistic expectations. / The more I learn about people the more I like my dog. / Whether you think that you can, or that you can't, you are usually right. / Its like everything it depends on everything else. 

 

 

 

 

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