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Tentoes1962

Starting a small indoor grow.....

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Hi everybody,

  So I plan to do a very small indoor grow with CFLs and probably not more than a 4 x 4 grow area.  My wife and I are renting and we just want to keep it on the down loooowwww.

  I will be using FF Ocean Forest and my question is:

 

Would it be okay to treat or drench the soil I plan to use with some Neem Oil and a little Broner’s soap?  In other words is it okay to treat the soil BEFORE planting anything in it?

 

My plan is to treat the soil while simultaneously starting (germinating) some seeds.  After they germinate, I plan to put them in plastic cups with the treated FFOF.

 

I appreciate your feedback!

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59 minutes ago, Tentoes1962 said:

Would it be okay to treat or drench the soil I plan to use with some Neem Oil and a little Broner’s soap?  In other words is it okay to treat the soil BEFORE planting anything in it?

 

That is good organic pest control, I have used FFOF many grows and never had issues with critters in their soil. Certainly can't hurt any though.

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In the indoor grow I did some years ago (using FFOF) all of the plants developed black spots on the leaves after they grew to about 1.5 feet in veg.  My research led me to try Neem oil and after application (drenched the soil), all subsequent growth had NO spots at all, so it seemed to work.

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But I don’t necessarily “blame” FFOF as the cause of the black spots.....for all I know I could have introduced unwanted critters while watering, etc.

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In lieu of adding another ingredient to the soup, may I suggest you research "soil sterilization" as an alternative to eradicate unwanted pathogens, bacteria, fungi, and critters along with their eggs.

 

Some stink up their kitchen and heat the soil in the oven at 145 -160 degrees (half hour or so...take it 180 for pure sterility) and then others process larger amounts using the sun's free solarizing power. It can be as simple as filling black plastic trash bags with soil, sealing it and stack em in the sun for 4-8 weeks during spring and summer, or rotating stackable plastic containers/trashcans/5 gallon buckets instead of plastic bags. A compost thermometer (long probe) will tell the tale.

 

I use the trashcan method to reclaim used soil, amend it primarily with liquid fish, seaweed extract, and sea salt, and then place the sealed trashcans in a sunny spot against a wall for 3-6 months. Only critters I see after transplanting are fungus gants, springtales, and an occasional earthworm or two; if you're organic, then, imo, these pests are really badges of honor and more of a nuisance than any threat.

 

Why add something if less is better?

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I appreciate the recommendations and I would very much like to implement a lot of the things you recommend but since we are in a small duplex I just don’t have the space.  It’s too bad, because with some extra time on my hands now, that’s the kind of experimentation that I like to do.

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1 cuft of anything is about 7.5 gallons.

Three 5 gallon buckets will hold 2 cuft.

Black absorbs heat better than white or colored buckets.

 

2 bags of soil, 3 black buckets (with lids), fill em and set buckets in a sunnier spot on porch for 3-4 months. You're good to go for August/September transplanting.

 

Just a thought.😷👊

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Hey also I was curious to know if there are other ways to determine the sex of a plant besides just closely watching the “v” very closely (where the leaf stem meets the main trunk) during veg?  I would guess that if money is no object then there are probably companies that can tell you if you send them a leaf sample? Just curious...

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2 hours ago, Tentoes1962 said:

Hey also I was curious to know if there are other ways to determine the sex of a plant besides just closely watching the “v” very closely (where the leaf stem meets the main trunk) during veg?  I would guess that if money is no object then there are probably companies that can tell you if you send them a leaf sample? Just curious...

 

You pretty much listed the only ways to tell that I know of. You can place the lights to 12 hours for a couple of days or so and force them to tell their sex, then put the lights back to where you had them to finish vegging. 

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I examine the area near the plant stipule (the "v") between days 36 and 42 after germination and focus on identifying pistils with white (never green) hairs..

 

Female parts show 4-6 weeks (before day 42) and are less confusing to identify. Examine the for pistil shaped formations with 1 or 2 white hairs peeking out of the pistil. Notice the shape of the pistil is long and not stubby like the male part (ace of spade).

image.png.ab26fdef73f97114dac2aaa075f9db89.png

image.png.39c091dfdd493cb7da30880750bbcb61.png

 

Male parts show 3-4 weeks after germination and are sometimes confusing to identify with great certainty. You are looking for a growth that resembles the "ace of spades"--no white hairs.

image.png.a7b44adced4e2d44574d76e723d0829b.png

image.png.d2dc1d43345174c3804a6e1e73587dd8.png

 

Practice make perfect. BTW, photos were lifted from other websites.
 

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Posted (edited)

Yes and thank you, Backdoor!  In your post above, those features are typically visible BEFORE switching the plants’ light cycle to flower, am I correct?  In my very limited experience (one grow), I was able to identify them as you described before shortening the “daylight” time.

 

 I have a small hand-held microscope (it has a battery and LED light) that lets me look at very fine (almost too fine) features of the plant....I will attach a pic of it....

09683C3E-FE6C-473B-BCF3-6B4891F525EE.jpeg

 

...and that is how I cheat!!  But this one doesn’t have any way to transfer or upload the images it takes to anything.  Nowadays I’m pretty sure you can buy a very similar one with a Bluetooth or WiFi connection for very little money.  If I remember with my one grow, the first thing I remember noticing were white hairs......

Edited by Tentoes1962
Needed additional information

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Yes, when I do seed runs, I am able to determine sex by day 42 after seed germination while everyone is in veg. I start on day 36 and by day 42, task is done. Occasionally there will be a few stumpers so, for these I take a cutting from the top (keeping the bigger "mama" plant) and after it roots put the baby under 12/12 photoperiod and let nature tell me the sex. Some of the undetermined ones were AC/DC (herms) which explains the difficulty.

 

I buy one or two of these each year. Under $5 and they work for me, maybe it's because I like dark roast coffee--black and the occasional caffeine jitters makes it difficult to hold a larger magnifier steady. Ahh, with these tiny magnifiers, I have to put my face right into it (real intimate), but it works for me--even after a double expresso.

image.png.961e26f84415106b9ff7f79853e8417c.png 

 

Some smart people say a plant can be re-vegged (veg --> 12/12 flower --> 18/6 veg) without a problem, I disagree. One of the variables the can alter a plant's genetics is environment, as when a plant responds to an environmental change.

 

In Science speak: Stress-responsive genes and their subsequent introgression or overexpression within sensitive crop species can change a cultivars genome (aka GMO).

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Thank you, Backdoor!  I am not hopeful that it will be me who is the one who discovers the “foie gras” equivalent of marijuana....who would have thought that by feeding a duck or goose nothing but milk (and corn(?)) would lead to a culinary delicacy of the animal’s liver?!  Really I mostly just like to grow weed.  When I was a kid in High School, I had a “science-fair project” of weed growing in my closet, and a few of my buddies would often like to go into that closet and sit and stare at the plants (generally while flying of course, but not always!) for long periods of time.  Really I am still that kid and I like to hear of the grow stories and methodologies in the hope that I can find a strain and grow-method that might lead to some flower that tastes like hash, coupled with a nice high.  I know it is mostly subjective, but it’s good to keep swinging at the ball.... I appreciate your ideas!

 

I have attached a picture of “Ashley”....:)

 

Yes I know I need to transplant them now.

A7E856CF-7881-4091-AD92-6A297A77DA31.png

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Ah, foie gras, mighty tasty treat. Dab it on bread, glass of Syrah wine and watching a fabulous sunset (at the beach)--trifecta!

 

A simple plant feeding analogy:

Feeding your plant via roots is like eating at "smorgasbord"--the plant decides what it wants to eat and how much; if it doesn't want "broccoli" it skips it.

Feeding your plant via foliar spray is like "gavage feeding" (forced feeding through a tube passed into the stomach)--the plant has no choice but to intake the nutrients via the stomata in the leaves and stems, at a rate that can be 20 times faster than root feeding.

 

Hmm, skinny minny vs big boned long legged amazon warrioress, lol.

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I didn’t even know you could feed/water your plants that way (via spraying the foliage).  I always assumed if you are spraying the leaves then you are applying some kind of “treatment” (like Neem oil or ugh, a pesticide).  

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This 81 page pdf titled, "Foliar Nutrition" contains a wealth of information, with one caveat, it was published in 1994 so it may not contain the latest ideas. That said, imo, certain things in agriculture always remain the same; it's the people that change.

 

https://midwestlabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/foliar_nutrition.pdf

 

For some modern day thoughts--

https://ipm.missouri.edu/MPG/2019/4/foliarFeeding/

 

Some of my foliar spray recipes (1 gallon), first my base spray recipe which I use for all foliar nutrient and cide sprays)

 

Base Spray recipe (used for all sprays)

0.76 grams Urea

2.5 ml EZ Wet SE (saponin wetting agent derived from Yucca Schidigera)

 

Mineral

15 ml Potassium Silicate (liquid)

2.5 ml Liquid Seaweed Extact (GrowMore)

2.5 ml Sea Minerals (Sea-90)

 

Fertility

2.5 ml Liquid Seaweed extract

2.5 ml hydrolyzed fish

5 ml Sea Minerals (Sea-90)

 

Preventive Biological PM

37.5 ml Regalia

4 grams Actinovate

2.5 ml Liquid Seaweed Extract

 

Preventive PM/Cide

7.5 ml Neem 70 (70% neem and 30% orange plus?)

7.5 ml Azatrol/Azamax (1.2% azadirachtin)

2.5 ml PyGanic (5% pyrethrin)

 

Hope this helps.

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On 5/28/2020 at 7:56 AM, Backdoor said:

This 81 page pdf titled, "Foliar Nutrition" contains a wealth of information, with one caveat, it was published in 1994 so it may not contain the latest ideas. That said, imo, certain things in agriculture always remain the same; it's the people that change.

 

https://midwestlabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/foliar_nutrition.pdf

 

For some modern day thoughts--

https://ipm.missouri.edu/MPG/2019/4/foliarFeeding/

 

Some of my foliar spray recipes (1 gallon), first my base spray recipe which I use for all foliar nutrient and cide sprays)

 

Base Spray recipe (used for all sprays)

0.76 grams Urea

2.5 ml EZ Wet SE (saponin wetting agent derived from Yucca Schidigera)

 

Mineral

15 ml Potassium Silicate (liquid)

2.5 ml Liquid Seaweed Extact (GrowMore)

2.5 ml Sea Minerals (Sea-90)

 

Fertility

2.5 ml Liquid Seaweed extract

2.5 ml hydrolyzed fish

5 ml Sea Minerals (Sea-90)

 

Preventive Biological PM

37.5 ml Regalia

4 grams Actinovate

2.5 ml Liquid Seaweed Extract

 

Preventive PM/Cide

7.5 ml Neem 70 (70% neem and 30% orange plus?)

7.5 ml Azatrol/Azamax (1.2% azadirachtin)

2.5 ml PyGanic (5% pyrethrin)

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

This seems a bit technical for a beginner.  Just saying.  :) 


ommp-pay-it-forward-600-200.jpg

 

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2 hours ago, PaPa-Smurf said:

This seems a bit technical for a beginner.  Just saying

 

I don't know if this is helpful, perhaps you might give the grower a bit of 'beginner' help rather than admonish someone who seems to be trying?

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14 hours ago, PaPa-Smurf said:

 

 

This seems a bit technical for a beginner.  Just saying.  :) 

All right Papa, you stepped in it, now show us how its done. Please respond to the OP's statement with less technical stuff. It's your turn to share and help out a beginner. So please strut your stuff and Pay It Forward.😁

 

On 5/27/2020 at 2:44 PM, Tentoes1962 said:

I didn’t even know you could feed/water your plants that way (via spraying the foliage).  I always assumed if you are spraying the leaves then you are applying some kind of “treatment” (like Neem oil or ugh, a pesticide).  

 

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On 6/1/2020 at 7:03 AM, Backdoor said:

All right Papa, you stepped in it, now show us how its done. Please respond to the OP's statement with less technical stuff. It's your turn to share and help out a beginner. So please strut your stuff and Pay It Forward.😁

 

I don't know how to grow like you, I'm a beginner and would need assistance, I was 'just saying'  seemed a bit complicated. 

 

:) No harm meant. 


ommp-pay-it-forward-600-200.jpg

 

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Its all good. If growing great cannabis was easy/not complicated, then everyone would be doing it to the tens.

 

Imo, providing a few of my personal recipes and shining light to a "non-cannabis" agricultural publication about foliar feeding (avoiding bro-science and stoner logic), I thought would be the best and simplest and best way to introduce an old and proven technique to someone unaware of the magic of foliar feeding.

 

Cut and paste from https://www.smart-fertilizer.com/articles/foliar-feeding/

 

UNDER WHICH CONDITIONS SHOULD YOU USE FOLIAR FEEDING?

Under certain conditions, foliar feeding has an advantage over soil applications.

Limiting conditions – A foliar feeding is recommended when environmental conditions limit the uptake of nutrients by roots.  Such conditions may include high or low soil pH, temperature stress, too low or too high soil moisture, root disease, presence of pests that affect nutrient uptake, nutrient imbalances in soil etc.

For example, micronutrient availability is greatly reduced in high soil pH. Under such conditions, foliar application of micronutrients might be the more efficient way to supply micronutrients to the plant.

Nutrient deficiency symptoms – One of the advantages of foliar feeding is the quick response of the plant to the nutrient application.

The efficiency of nutrient uptake is considered to be 8-9 folds higher when nutrients are applied to the leaves, when compared with nutrients applied to soil.

Therefore, when a deficiency symptom shows up, a quick, but temporary fix, would be applying the deficient nutrient through foliar application.

In specific growth stages – Plants require different amounts of nutrients in different growth stages. It is sometimes difficult to control the nutrient balance in soil. Foliar applications of essential nutrients during key stages can improve yield and quality.

 

Hope this helps.

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