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flyin1420

My No-Till Garden ~

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I actually really appreciate this thread. I've built some soil, I need to start letting it cook.

 

I had issues with mites and gnats, I drenched in neem oil every three days or so for like 2 months, went away. Love that stuff.

 

Thank you for documenting so well! Take care, happy growing!

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I actually really appreciate this thread. I've built some soil, I need to start letting it cook.

 

I had issues with mites and gnats, I drenched in neem oil every three days or so for like 2 months, went away. Love that stuff.

 

Thank you for documenting so well! Take care, happy growing!

 

Thank you for the kind words and feedback, NN!  I'm glad to hear that the neem oil has worked so well for you.  I don't really hear from many other people around here that use it.  If you don't mind me asking, what do you emulsify the oil with?  Also, when you mention "drenched" do you mean a foliar or soil drench?

 

Do please let me know if there is anything that I've mentioned that could be clarified or discussed further. There are many facets to this thing that I've only touched on that warrant further discussion and investigation.  Comments, questions, and feedback here give me a greater opportunity to learn, research, understand, and fact-check things for myself. 

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This is tent #1.  Six 20 gallons in here each with a different strain. I have no idea how long these have been vegging for, but they are long overdue to begin flowering.  I've been waiting for a few other things to line up before I flipped the lights over to 12/12 on Wednesday (Dec 16). 

 

This is Hash Skunk.  This plant is a vigourous grower.  I used a lot of cuttings from this one to practice cloning and I also trimmed it back twice before I took this photo tonight.  I just now trimmed it back a third time after taking this photo.  All of the prunings went right back onto the soil as mulch. 

20151218_181942_zpsmtrveeab.jpg

 

This is the main stalk...
20151218_182025_zpsumc16uqz.jpg

 

This is my Sour Diesel.  At least that's what it's supposed to be.  This one kind of weak, but we'll see how the clones from it do.

20151218_182044_zpsanb7hm4l.jpg

 

This is Blue Dream.  This is roughly the same age as the Hash Skunk, and was transplanted at the same time.  I only had to prune this once and it never grew back like crazy

20151218_182100_zpsuzvakvus.jpg

 

This is The Purple crowded back in the corner.  There are actually two in there growing in the same container.  Some of the leaves have shown some sort of nutrient imbalance.  I made a neem/kelp tea last week to treat garden with.  Two handfuls neem meal, one handful kelp meal in a 5 gallon bucket of water bubble for about 24 hours.  The new growth since then has been nice and green. 

20151218_183929_zpsbimxxnlz.jpg

 

This is Guerilla Glue #4  This thing is a crazy grower.  It grows fast with thick stems and huge leaves.  The leaves in the front look like kind of a mess because they smashing into the front of the tent.  The force is strong with this one.

20151218_183906_zpsu06ppcqs.jpg

 

SomeRandomGuy, this is the molasses strip that I made a while back on your suggestion.  The neem top dress took care of the gnats for a time, but when they started to make a comeback, the molasses strip caught quite few of them.  Then I did a neem oil foliar in here and it washed most of the molasses.  Most of the gnats remained stuck to

the paper though...

20151217_012217_zps5j3a1vld.jpg

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Do you know if any of you're hash Skunk clones are going to live?

 

They sure are.  I have at least 6 strong healthy clones from it.  I started with about 20 cuttings and culled out the weaker ones.  It was kind of an inefficient method that I was using before.  My cloning is going much better with the cloner I made.  I'll post an updated photo of that one later on.

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Do you know if any of you're hash Skunk clones are going to live?

 

They sure are.  I have at least 6 strong healthy clones from it.  I started with about 20 cuttings and weaned out the weaker ones.  It was kind of an inefficient method that I was using before.  My cloning is going much better with the cloner I made.  I'll post an updated photo of that one later on.

 

 

That is good to hear, I'm a weak clonner and seeing someone able to make clones of the Hash skunk makes me happy. I need to try again.

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I actually really appreciate this thread. I've built some soil, I need to start letting it cook.

 

I had issues with mites and gnats, I drenched in neem oil every three days or so for like 2 months, went away. Love that stuff.

 

Thank you for documenting so well! Take care, happy growing!

 

Thank you for the kind words and feedback, NN!  I'm glad to hear that the neem oil has worked so well for you.  I don't really hear from many other people around here that use it.  If you don't mind me asking, what do you emulsify the oil with?  Also, when you mention "drenched" do you mean a foliar or soil drench?

 

Do please let me know if there is anything that I've mentioned that could be clarified or discussed further. There are many facets to this thing that I've only touched on that warrant further discussion and investigation.  Comments, questions, and feedback here give me a greater opportunity to learn, research, understand, and fact-check things for myself. 

 

 

 

Generally I was taught to use some dish soap, specifically Bronners with some pepperment of lavendar for the essential oils bit, but I use just handmade castille soap most times to emulsify the neem oil. I did do foliar, but I eventually moved into soil drenching too form my friend. He has a similar watering system with the aloe/agsil that he keeps talking to me about and I think it would be phenomenal to work with. Right now it's just all about working within budgets!

 

I will go ahead and re-read through here and post more questions as they come up.

 

Take care

 

@EK - I have been unable to clone for a solid 2 months now, dozens of clones, just damped off, very upset, but learning!

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Here is the clover cover crop coming in nicely after just a few days.  Taken this morning just after lights out:20151219_083112_zps6nmruee2.jpg

 

Also here is a shot of the roots in the cloner.  These are Amnesia Hash Plant #1 through #4.  I'm getting a much better percentage success rate with this method - almost 90% so far.  The ones that failed had been sitting in a cup of water for several days before they went into the cloner.  I think it's best to take fresh cuttings directly from the plant to the cloner.  These will be going into some soil either today or tomorrow.

20151219_083313_zpskebjihaz.jpg

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Generally I was taught to use some dish soap, specifically Bronners with some pepperment of lavendar for the essential oils bit, but I use just handmade castille soap most times to emulsify the neem oil. I did do foliar, but I eventually moved into soil drenching too form my friend. He has a similar watering system with the aloe/agsil that he keeps talking to me about and I think it would be phenomenal to work with. Right now it's just all about working within budgets!

 

I will go ahead and re-read through here and post more questions as they come up.

 

 

I hear you about working within budgets! I invested in bulk ingredients up front to build these no-tills and have all of the regular inputs on hand for whenever I need them, so now the only on-going cost I have for this garden is electricity (which does add up quick!)

 

I like using Lavender and Rosemary oils for IPM foliars during flowering.  They are both highly effective, and they make everything smell wonderful!

 

I do have some castille soap here around the house and considered using it to emuslify.  I'm going to try it next time I need to do a neem foliar to see how effective it is.  Also I have been experimenting with soap-nuts (Reetha).  Because of the high level of saponins they contain, I figured they may be useful as an emulsifier.  Agsil seems to work the best for me so far, but I'm always experimenting and trying to find better methods.

 

I had read that soil-drenching with neem oil was a bad idea.  I haven't tried it myself.  It seems that if the azadirachtin is taken up by the roots efficiently, then this might be a good idea.  I prefer to use the neem oil as a foliar, and use neem meal for top-dress and teas.  The same active compounds are found in the meal, so it is still very effective.

 

If you would like to try some aloe/agsil, I would be happy to give you some NonaNonce.

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I hear you about working within budgets! I invested in bulk ingredients up front to build these no-tills and have all of the regular inputs on hand for whenever I need them, so now the only on-going cost I have for this garden is electricity (which does add up quick!)

 

I just realized that was not entirely accurate.  Coconuts are the only other on-going expense for the garden (besides electricity).  I buy them at Uwajimaya by the case for $24.30.  Case is 9 coconuts.  I think each one yields about 1 to 2 cups of coconut water and I use that at 1/4 cup per gallon.  I believe it really makes a big difference in the health, vigor and yield

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Uwajimaya..YEAH!
 

We are spoiled in Beaverton with the Asian food stores. 

 

Can you show a before and after next time you trim your plants up?

Our canopies look different and I'm wondering why.

I think I'm taking two more internodes off than you generally do when I prune for the final time.

 

Oh, NonaNonce, I think one of the key elements to cloning is lower temps.  I don't know why, but even store bought celery will re-sprout if you shove it in dirt, I think its the coldness.

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Uwajimaya..YEAH!

 

We are spoiled in Beaverton with the Asian food stores. 

 

Can you show a before and after next time you trim your plants up?

Our canopies look different and I'm wondering why.

I think I'm taking two more internodes off than you generally do when I prune for the final time.

 

Oh, NonaNonce, I think one of the key elements to cloning is lower temps.  I don't know why, but even store bought celery will re-sprout if you shove it in dirt, I think its the coldness.

 

I usually don't like to prune my plants at all (except for the lower branches that are dead or dying, or if I can tell they are not going to be productive).  The reason I had to prune the Hash Skunk and the Blue Dream was because they had vegged for too long and grown too tall.  The lights in that tent can't move any higher, so I have to manage the vertical growth carefully.  I take the terminal bud of the main stem (apical meristem), bend it over as low as possible and tie it down.  The tip must be below the rest of the branches.  This causes the plant to transfer apical dominance away from the main stem.  All the rest of the lower branches now compete for apical dominance and undergo a growth spurt.  If the main stem grows higher than the others, I tie it back down.  This causes the plant to bush out nicely and stay low-growing.  This seems to work for me.

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So, are you only tying down the plants when they will get too tall?

 

I like training them. The no-til I have growing now got their hormones all thrown in a tizzy using the same method as you. However, I see all that bushyness and worry about PM, because I've made her grow artificially too closed in on herself. That's a legitimate concern right, but so is taking off too much and reducing the potential of the plant. So I don't feel I've got my middle ground on this yet.

Have you grown bushes like this before? How did those inner parts of the plant fair?

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So, are you only tying down the plants when they will get too tall?

 

I like training them. The no-til I have growing now got their hormones all thrown in a tizzy using the same method as you. However, I see all that bushyness and worry about PM, because I've made her grow artificially too closed in on herself. That's a legitimate concern right, but so is taking off too much and reducing the potential of the plant. So I don't feel I've got my middle ground on this yet.

Have you grown bushes like this before? How did those inner parts of the plant fair?

 

I start training early; long before they get too tall.  Once they get tall enough to bend over, but before the point that the stem gets too rigid to bend without snapping.  Maybe 12" - 18" or more.  I don't worry so much about powdery mildew.  I just try to make sure to stay consistent with my IPM program.  That includes neem/karanja oil foliars, lavendar/rosemary during mid to late flower, neem meal top dress, agsil in foliars and soil drenches, crab shell meal in the soil mix and compost top-dresses.  The chitin in the crab shell meal causes the plants to ramp up their defense mechanisms.  I could do a better job of controlling temp and humidity, but that can be difficult to do in my uninsulated garage.  So I just don't worry much about it

 

My first couple of grows using more conventional methods (not no-till) were attacked by powdery mildew badly.  Since I've gone no-till, and included plenty of neem meal and neem oil, PM has been almost non-existent.

 

I don't see anything wrong with pruning some of the under-growth if it is too crowded.  That's what I do.  It affords better airflow in and around the plant

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This is Amnesia Hash Plant (#1) at 25 days

 

I've cleared away most of the lower branches and leaves.  This one was a fast grower in early veg, and I had to give it a lot of attention training.  You can see in the photo how the main stalk goes off to the right for several inches and then hooks back off to the left.  I bent the top over and tied it down.  As it kept growing I kept tying the top back down until I trained it back the other direction. Eventually the terminal bud stopped growing so much as each of the lateral shoots along the main stem started reaching upward.  This ended up being a nice bush with a nice frosty flowers starting to form.

 

20151224_224126_zpscvtwp0rf.jpg

 

 

Here a shot from above.  The tip of the main stem is the the little flower near the lower left.

20151224_224324_002_zps4sheb3fi.jpg

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Another shot of AHP#1.  Meant to post this last night, but I fell asleep instead.  Merry Christmas everyone!

 

20151224_223836_zpsokz46m3r.jpg

 

Here's another flower on the same plant

20151224_223853_zpsffadxxfu.jpg

 

 

Here is a shot of AHP#3.  So far I really like #1 (pictured above) and this one.  #3 is a shorter plant and has big fat leaves. Some of the branches on this one got blasted by the fan for too long, and there's some yellowing on a few big fan leaves.  The center cola on the main stem is pictured here.  I didn't do as much training on this one since it is a much shorter plant.

20151224_223906_zpsbeumkpbo.jpg

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How is using the MH comparing to the HPS for flower?

Inconclusive at this point.  I did get a slightly lower yield than I expected, but I think it may have been due to other factors.  I need to flower out a set of plants a couple of times with HPS and a couple of times with MH while taking care to keep all other variables conistent

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What are the ratios you use for mixing your neem/karanja oil, rosemary/lavender oil?  I've just ordered all of them :-)

 

Do you ever spray with fine dilutions of your teas? In veg I do, in flower I don't.

 

Do you think the oil fills in the stoma on the leaves and substitutes for microbes? Like it is an either or choice, instead of complimentary.

 

If I spray something that will strip the leaves such as apple cider vinegar or peroxide, I usually try and follow up with a fine dilution of A.C.T...but then stop the process. But, I think I'll finish with what ever your doing :Applause:

 

I want to get a photo of one of my plants so you can see I've that exact same bend in her stem from the training. But, these no-til pots aren't the best for picking up and positioning for photos...

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What are the ratios you use for mixing your neem/karanja oil, rosemary/lavender oil?  I've just ordered all of them :-)

 

Do you ever spray with fine dilutions of your teas? In veg I do, in flower I don't.

 

Do you think the oil fills in the stoma on the leaves and substitutes for microbes? Like it is an either or choice, instead of complimentary.

 

If I spray something that will strip the leaves such as apple cider vinegar or peroxide, I usually try and follow up with a fine dilution of A.C.T...but then stop the process. But, I think I'll finish with what ever your doing :Applause:

 

I want to get a photo of one of my plants so you can see I've that exact same bend in her stem from the training. But, these no-til pots aren't the best for picking up and positioning for photos...

 

For neem/karanja, I use it at 1 tablespoon (15ml) per gallon of warm water.  I pour it into a little measuring shot glass, then add at least 15 ml of agsil solution.  If you're using something else to emulsify with, then you may have to experiment with the amount needed.  I usually mix it up, and then pour the emulsified oil into another glass of warm water and stir this up well, before adding it to the sprayer with the gallon of warm water.  Neem and Karanja oil can be used interchangeably, but Karanja is easier to work with in the cold weather.

 

I use neem/karanja during veg up until two weeks into flower.  Once the flowers have really set, I stop using it and switch to using lavendar oil at 5ml per gallon of warm water emulsified with agsil solution. Sometimes I'll make it 3 ml lavandar with 2 ml rosemary.  I have not tried straight rosemary yet.  Maybe I will one day this week..

 

I don't do any sort of compost teas, not for foliars or soil drenches, so I haven't really considered weather the oil displaces or replaces any microbes.  That's something that I may experiment with down the road, and I'm sure I'll find it beneficial.  For now I'm more interested in focusing on the microbes in the soil.

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I did some pruning today.  It had to be done.  I let the plants in tent #1 veg too long, and the growth is out of control.

 

Here is a before and after.  The one in the front is Gorilla Glue:

20160103_145837_zpsmiyxv7dq.jpg

 

After:

20160103_155550_zpsnovm7ju3.jpg

 

This is is day 18 of the flowering cycle for this tent.  The tops are all trying to grow into the light, so I'm having to tie them down as they continue to stretch.  Hopefully they stop soon.  There were a lot of small lower branches that were never going to amount to anything and only suck energy and resources away from the top canopy.  It all makes great mulch though.  The Gorilla Glue in the font of this photo is in a third cycle no-till, and it seems to be loving life.  There is no indication that the soil is under-performing, as this plant is growing like a monster!  The one behind it is my beloved Purple.  To the left front is Purple OG Kush, and the left rear is Blue Dream

 

I had some of The One and The Purple to trim this weekend.  I accidentally let them dry too long, and the relative humidity has been very low lately.  The One is very stinky!  Last time I grew it, spider mites had assaulted it badly.  I still came away with some damn impressive smoke, but this time it turned out so much better.  The Purple is just plain amazing.  I would not call it stinky - this one is incredibly fragrant.  And the smoke is smooth and flavorful even without having cured yet.  I've got them both jarred for curing with some Boveda Humidipaks (62%).  Hopefully that helps add a little bit of moisture back to the buds.

 

The Purple:

20160102_123440_zps9mvjmlm4.jpg

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As controversial as it is, I ALWAYS prune mine like that. There are lots of reasons to do so. I would however recommend you do the majority of it at least a few days before flipping the switch to 12hrs. All that pruning can be stressful on the plants... and we all know what the result of too much stress in flower cycle is ;)

 

Nice color on that purple btw!


 

                                                                                                                                                   

 

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As controversial as it is, I ALWAYS prune mine like that. There are lots of reasons to do so. I would however recommend you do the majority of it at least a few days before flipping the switch to 12hrs. All that pruning can be stressful on the plants... and we all know what the result of too much stress in flower cycle is ;)

 

Nice color on that purple btw!

Thanks for the feedback, Dudz.  Usually my goal is to train the plants well enough to keep everything low and even, but I just couldn't spend as much time in here as I would have liked to, and these plants got away from me.  I'm guessing the result of too much stress that you're alluding to would be hermaphrodites, right?  I've been keeping an eye out for any indication, and seen none.  The plants in this tent are all from proven clones so I'm hoping that hermies won't be a problem.  Any plants I see starting male flowers  - even as a result of stress - will not be cloned and kept.  I'm not keeping any weak genetics around.

 

Thanks about that color of the purple!  It's an attention-getter for sure!

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the Gorilla Glue has that same tell tale bend in the stalk I have on my C99xNJ :-) I knew it.

 

do you only have one kind of worm? do you have any of the bigger night crawlers? Seeing worms thriving in soil is a great soil health indicator. I've heard a 1/3rd of the soil should be living in someway.

 

One of the wonderful things about no-til is the smoothness even when there is no curing or the drying is a bit out you always have flavor and smoothness.

Maybe no-til is the cake equivalent of flour, sugar,eggs...it's just hard not to end up with something tasting perfect when you've got the ingredients your working with.

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